Protestant: Sir, before we can go further ahead of other arguments and views, we have to settle first on the question: IS SALVATION A GIFT OR A REWARD. In my view, it cannot be both. Because the way I see it in the scriptures, there is a "synonymity" of GIFT and GRACE. And Grace is simply defined as UNMERITED FAVOR. Meaning, we are given this GIFT that we do not actually have in iota of right deserving it. This is purely GIFT because NOBODY can have it no matter how he performs. And it must be given BY SOMEBODY WHO HAS IT. And sad to say, no amount of human effort or accomplishment can ever "BUY" it.

Protestant: The epistles are addressed to people WHO HAVE ACCEPTED THIS GIFT. That explains why in most of his epistles, Paul addressed the recipients as SAINTS, CHURCH, BELIEVERS, SANCTIFIED, JUSTIFIED, CHILDREN OF GOD. Are these people perfect? NO. Look at Ephesians, Galatians, etc. These books tell us the admonitions of Paul to his readers to live a life of Holiness and Obedience. This is so simply because even if these people ACCEPTED THE GIFT by putting their Faith in Jesus, nowhere in the scriptures that they are described as PERFECT, SINLESS PEOPLE.

Protestant: Pardon me, but let me give a simplistic Illustration again:

This Christmas, you as a loving Father will certainly give your children gifts. You will agree with me that you will give this gift to them not because they are perfect children, but simply because you love them. Will you take this gift back one day if they will not perform well as you expected? Certainly Not, because this is a GIFT not a REWARD.

Thank you.

More answers inserted:

Catholic: Sir: Okay. Let me see if I got you right.

1 Cor 9:27 Okay. I think your reply can be summarized by the following: “Again, if you take this “crowns” and “rewards” as salvation, then it renders salvation or eternal life as a REWARD no longer as a GIFT.”

I will have my answer tomorrow- I left my Navarre Romans and Galatians bible, I couldn’t check on the passages, but offhand I have a few questions:

1. Your statement is based on two crucial assumptions: First, a “gift” cannot be rejected. Second, salvation follows a strict either-or situation: either it’s a gift, in which case it cannot be a reward; or it’s a reward, in which case it cannot be a gift.

Protestant: Sorry Sir, this is not an assumption. Romans 6:23 is very clear. Salvation/Eternal Life is a GIFT not a REWARD. For clarity, REWARD IS NOT A GIFT AND GIFT IS NOT A REWARD.

Catholic: On eternal life as a gift which, according to you, may not be rejected, please answer each question true or false:

1. Rom 6:23 is VERY clear: eternal life is a gift. T/F

2. As a gift, eternal life may not be rejected. T/F

3. According to you, there are two groups of people:. There are the UNBELIEVERS (those who will REJECT Jesus Christ; to them are the warnings of God that they will be rejected because they rejected Jesus Christ as God’s gift- to them is eternal condemnation). And there are the BELIEVERS (those who by faith BELIEVE and RECEIVE Jesus Christ as God’s gift; to them God gave the right to become children of God). T/F

4. In each of the nine passages I quoted are two kinds of people : UNBELIEVERS AND BELIEVERS. (Note: These passages are: Mt 10:3333; Lk12:9; Tit 1:16; Acts 7:39; Rom 2:8; Acts 13:46; 1 Tim 1:19; Lk 17:25; 1 Pet 2:4) T/F

5. Romans was written for the Christian community in Rome. T/F

6. The Christian community consisted of Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians. T/F

7. Being Christians, the people addressed by Paul in Romans are all
BELIEVERS. T/F

8. Being BELIEVERS, the people addressed by Paul in Romans all believe and
have RECEIVED Jesus Christ. T/F

9. Having received Jesus Christ, these Christian BELIEVERS in Romans have
ACCEPTED the gift of eternal salvation. T/F

10. In Romans 2, Paul was specifically addressing Jewish Christians. T/F

11. The people described in Romans 2:7 are Jewish Christians, all BELIEVERS.

12. The ones described in Romans 2:8,because they are also Christians and have
RECEIVED Jesus Christ , are likewise BELIEVERS. T/F

13. Paul is, therefore, WRONG in Romans 2:8 that for these BELIEVERS, THERE
WILL BE WRATH AND FURY. T/F



The question is: How valid are these two assumptions?

First, on whether a gift may not be rejected:

Luke 10:16 – “He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

John 12:48 “There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day”

Mt 10:33; Lk 12:9; Tit 1:16; Acts 7:39; Rom 2:8; Acts 13:46; 1 Tim 1:19; Lk 17:25; 1 Pet 2:4

Protestant: All the verses above talk about 2 groups of people. Those who will REJECT Jesus Christ whom the Bible refers to generally as UNBELIEVERS. To them are the warnings of God that they will be REJECTED because they REJECTED Jesus Christ as God's Gift. To them is eternal condemnation. To them is denied eternal life. To them is HOPELESSNESS.

On the other hand, there is another group of people who BY FAITH BELIEVE AND RECEIVE JESUS CHRIST as God's GIFT. To them God gave the RIGHT TO BECOME CHILDREN OF GOD. [John 1:12]. They are the Believers, Saints, Church, God's People, Justified, Sanctified, Redeemed, Citizens of Heaven, God's elect, etc.



Protestant: The epistles are addressed to people WHO HAVE ACCEPTED THIS GIFT. That explains why in most of his epistles, Paul addressed the recipients as SAINTS, CHURCH, BELIEVERS, SANCTIFIED, JUSTIFIED, CHILDREN OF GOD. Are these people perfect? NO. Look at Ephesians, Galatians, etc. These books tell us the admonitions of Paul to his readers to live a life of Holiness and Obedience. This is so simply because even if these people ACCEPTED THE GIFT by putting their Faith in Jesus, nowhere in the scriptures that they are described as PERFECT, SINLESS PEOPLE.

Catholic: Maybe, except that Is 43:25 Acts 3:19, and Is 44:22 seem as to me as clearly describing a blotting out, a wiping away, a taking away of sins, not a mere declaration that sin’s no longer there when in fact it is.Please help me see your view. Yet again Is 1:16 and Luke in “Acts 22:16 speak of a washing away of sins, not merely a covering up. Heb 1:3 speaks of a cleansing of sins. 1 John 1:7 is even more emphatic: “Cleanse us from ALL sins.” Paul says “you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified. . .” in 1 Cor 6:11.

There’s just too many of them to convince me that NOWHERE in Sacred Scripture that we DON’T have to be sinless to get to heaven.

OH I SEE. I THINK I GOT IT. You’re saying that being perfect is NOT NEEDED for one to be a saint, to be a member of the Church, to be justified, to be called a believer, to be sanctified. On the other hand, I’m saying that one has to be perfect to get to heaven. You are talking of the journey, I’m talking of the final destination.

Protestant: NOW TELL ME ABOUT ACTS 13:38. What do you mean of the statement "THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS IS PROCLAIMED TO YOU. Then continue reading and understand of verse 39.

Catholic: First, you're hanging your argument on the word "PROCLAIMED," with all its implications of absoluteness, finality, and infallibility. Yet look at other Bibles- some use "proclaimed," others use "preached," while one uses "announced." In one version, the word is not even found (International Standard version: " And that everyone who believes in him is justified and freed from everything that kept you from being justified by the law of Moses.")!

Second, you can't be telling me that of all the passages in the Bible that pertain, you will believe as the truth only one- this particular one, which also happens to agree with you.

Finally I thought we've condemned proof-texting.

.

Protestant: No further comment. Thanks.